Over the last few weeks, there have been fewer and fewer job openings. I’ve noticed as I’ve gone looking for them to post here that I wasn’t finding as many as I used to. I’ve tried to find some interesting content to share with you instead, which I hope I’ve accomplished.
However, it seems law librarians aren’t the only ones affected. According to the WSJ, job openings fell to a record low in July. I would not be surprised to see that trend continue when the August figures are released.
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Filed under: discussion
I am a law graduate interested in segueing into a law librarian career. I am still at the phase where I am reading law librarian blogs and profiles and also looking at the LLAGNY site. I have considered applying to library schools in my area but I want to make sure that would be a wise move before expending the time and money. Would you say that going to school to become a law librarian is a good move at this time? I am currently having trouble finding employment with just the law degree. I would love to have a discussion with someone who can take some time to talk to me.
Lucy, as a law graduate in her second semester of library school, here’s my sincerest advice to you:
1. First off, if you can somehow find a library job where the employer will actually help out with the tuition, take that job and see if you can work and pay your way through school. This is a better alternative than coughing up the money yourself (obviously). Of course the toughest part of this is that it’s easier said than done. But I have heard of law librarians who got their jobs first after law school and then went for their MLS.
2. Keep in mind that if you do go to library school and can’t find a law librarian job, you may have to do with a regular librarian job most of which do not pay well enough to cover the kind of student loan debt dual degrees usually add up to. Just something to keep in mind. Try to get some library job as soon as possible. Or even volunteer at your local library; even if it’s unpaid you’ll get to see if it’s really the type of job you want and prospective employers will see that experience on your resume.
3. Try and find the least expensive library school you can go to in-state and go there. You wouldn’t believe how many people cough up big bucks for high-end school with ridiculous tuition because they think they’ll get a better job that way. In this economy, I’m afraid that simply isn’t so.
I really don’t know what to tell you about what your job prospects will be if you do go. No one has a crystal ball. Like I just told someone else on another board, do some soul-searching and assess your situation and see if it is what you want. No one can tell you what to do with your life except you. Best of luck to you.
Lucy, I am kind of wondering the same thing. I’m a lawyer who’s currently in library school, but I’m not sure if it’s worthwhile to finish this degree when there are no jobs. I went back to school only because the job market for lawyers is so bad right now, but it seems like the job market is probably even worse for law librarians.
My impression after taking a few library school classes is that librarianship is a dying profession desperately trying to stay relevant. Frankly, I think my classes are insultingly stupid compared to law school. I have learned things like: how to write a resume (!), how to do “chat reference” (we practiced instant messaging in class, and then discussed it as if it was brain surgery), and how to format a document in Microsoft Word (which would be useful if I wanted to be a secretary). It’s like taking remedial classes at a subpar high school. I am starting to think that I should just quit and be an unemployed lawyer instead of wasting more money on tuition and still ending up unemployed with an LS degree.
There’s no worse idea than going into law librarianship at this time. Look at the job boards; there are, maybe, five or six law firm jobs in the entire country. If you don’t mind working for a law school library, since you have a law degree, you might stand a chance. Otherwise, I’d forget it. I have seven years of law firm experience and I can’t even get an interview.
David, I don’t mean to be rude in saying this but have you considered that your attitude is affecting your job search and the results you’re getting? You’ve posted before and both other commentators and I have tried to encourage you to try and think more positively. We aren’t just saying that for the sake of it. I think employers look at attitude as a factor to consider.
Lucy and MJ, if you read the blog at all, you might know some of my background. I have both law and library science degrees. I went to library school after law school because I very much wanted to be a law librarian. I think motivation is very important in deciding to go to library school. Yes, it is not as hard as law school, but I didn’t think it was joke. There were important principles that I learned, as well as new technologies such as web design. I learned a lot from my firm job and I hope to learn a lot from my new job. I have not discussed any interviews I’ve had on this site because I don’t think it’s the place. However, I will assure you that I’ve had plenty of opportunities. Job searches simply take longer in the current economic climate.
I think life is what we make of it. I think our careers can be what we make of them. I like using the knowledge I have learned to help people. I don’t think libraries are dying. I think librarians are finding new ways of helping people. This blog is a good example. If you are interested in doing the same, I think law librarianship could be for you. No one can make any promises as to what jobs are going to be there when you graduate. Then again, no one could make those promises when you went to law school either.
Christine, I have to disagree with you about a couple of things. First of all, yes, I have learned to design a website, among other new technical skills. However, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from having my lawyer job outsourced to another country, it is this: any job you can do while sitting at a computer can be outsourced. Why is any law library going to pay me a decent salary to design their website when they can outsource it to India for a fraction of the salary and benefits they would pay me?
Furthermore, I know many, many people who design websites and manage databases, but they didn’t go to library school (and in some cases, didn’t go to college at all). Is it really necessary to get an expensive graduate degree to pick up a few technical skills?
Finally, you say that “no one could make those promises when you went to law school either” regarding the prospect of being employed after graduating. I guess it depends on when and where you went to law school. Although nothing is ever guaranteed, 99% of my law school class was employed at graduation, just as we expected when we applied to that school. There’s a big difference between being virtually guaranteed a job (as I was when I graduated from law school) and what I see around me in library school, where most of last year’s graduates are not employed as librarians.
Actually, I pointed out the benefits of library school as learning about the principles of librarianship AND the technical aspects. I didn’t go to library school just to learn how to design web pages or any other technical aspect. In fact, I didn’t even plan on learning that when I went to library school. I went to library school to learn how to be a librarian. I took it seriously no matter what was asked of me because I wanted to be a good librarian and never knew what might come in useful later.
As for your last paragraph, there was a recent article in the New York Times (http://lawlibrariansofleisure.com/2009/08/28/what-does-this-mean-for-law-firm-libraries/) about the current grim job prospects for law students, even at top schools. I was referencing that article and the fact that when those students started, they probably thought jobs were guaranteed. This year has shown everyone that they’re not.
There are no jobs to begin with. How many law firms are hiring librarians right now? What is the point of lecturesome posts about “attitude” when there aren’t any jobs? What has attitude got to do with that? A resume is a resume is a resume, and I’ve composed a couple of dozen different ones tailored to different jobs, mostly non-law jobs, as those don’t really exist currently.
What objective person could look at the field and honestly tell anyone that this is a grand time to plan a career in law librarianship?
Actually, I’m pretty excited about the job opportunity I’ve been given, though I’m not saying more because I’m not ready to formally announce it. And I’m excited enough about it to recommend this field to others. And I’m not trying to brag – I really just want to point out that there ARE possibilities.
The point I was trying to make with posting the article is that there are jobs lacking across the board. It isn’t just law librarians who are feeling this. But I would still at least try and do something I enjoy and that I feel passionate about.
Again, I’m sorry you aren’t having any luck finding a job. I actually wasn’t trying to lecture you so I’m sorry you took it as such.
My reply for anyone considering another degree would be — don’t get the degree unless you really want to be in that profession. Getting a degree because it’s a fallback plan won’t provide enough motivation to move through the obstacles in the career path, and it won’t provide enough satisfaction in that career, unless you are lucky enough to find you love the new career.
I fully agree. Thank you for stating that so clearly.
Was this job at an academic library which required a law degree? Those are, literally, the only jobs advertised at AALL. Those of us without law degrees are left completely without anything at all. Recommending law librarianship when there are no jobs simply doesn’t make sense. By this time next month I may well be homeless. I have exhausted my savings, my 401k and unemployment. For that reason I am not entirely happy about law librarianship.
As a service to some of the posters, I’ve run a quick check not only of the AALL job site but of every AALL regional chapter with a website. The total number of law firms in the country hiring librarians, according to AALL chapters? Five. I strongly suspect that at least three of the five have been filled, since the postings date from last April and May. (That they leave these things up for months at a time bespeaks contempt for the rest of us, in my opinion.)
I’m not exactly sure what you want from me. I’m sorry you don’t see a future in the profession but I DO. That is why I created this blog and that is why I have continued this blog. I wish you all the best in your future.
I’m responding primarily to other posters who wonder whether pursuing law librarianship is a good idea. If there are only five jobs in the country, it would not seem to be wise. I won’t trouble your blog again.
Hi Christine,
I would’ve emailed you but I think I lost your email address from when you emailed a few weeks ago. I just wanted to say congratulations on the new job and I’m so happy for you. Let me know how it goes so I can live vicariously through you.
As for everything else said here…at this point I just don’t think there are words for this anymore, for what not just we but so many other professions are experiencing. The doom and gloom and dispiritedness in this discussion makes me really sad and frightened, but somehow I also can’t believe that this is how we’re all going to go out. I can’t believe that.
Lucy, I wonder whether you are familiar with the writings of James Herriot? He was a Scottish veterinary surgeon who lived and worked in Yorkshire, England in the mid-20th century. In the 1970s he wrote some charming books about his experiences. His first book, “If only they could talk” (1970), contains the following sentence in its first paragraph:
“Being a newly qualified veterinary surgeon in this year of 1937 was like taking out a ticket for the dole queue…so many friends who had qualified with me were working in shops or as laborers in the shipyards that I had given up hope of any other future for myself.”
Mr Herriot’s problem was caused by the sudden obsolescence of his profession. The majority of veterinary surgeons in early 20th century England were not tending to pet dogs and cats. They were farm vets – a mainstay of the agricultural economy, who just happened to live in a time when farmers began abandoning draught horses in favor of tractors and other machinery, a mechanization which also encouraged farmers to abandon livestock farming in preference for its (now easier and more profitable) arable counterpart.
Returning to the 21st century. I have a J.D. and a Master’s degree in Legal Theory. I graduated with an MLS degree in May of this year; and this afternoon I will be completing an application to work at Guitar Center. I hope I get the job, although the manager tells me that there are a lot of other applicants. If I’m going to work a close-to-minimum-wage retail job, I’d rather do it surrounded by things I find interesting (such as electric guitars), as opposed to things I do not (such as cans of baked beans).
I’d like to think that I am enthusiastic about the profession of law librarianship. I’m highly trained and highly motivated. Whilst in library school I undertook several internships in law and social science libraries, and I worked in a law library for almost the whole duration of my library science program. I began to look for suitable jobs during my second year. In May, I admired my new diploma and renewed my search. For a supposedly clever man I then stumbled upon a stark reality…you can be as highly educated and motivated as you like, but that doesn’t give you the power to conjure up jobs to apply for.
The commentator known as “David” (above), who drew some criticism for his negativity is quite right. There is nothing out there…diddly squat, nichts, zero. I notice the AALL has built a new “Careers Section” in place of its old job page. This means that you can now enter various streaming terms to help navigate your way to the main job page, in order that you are not overwhelmed by the (fanfare) SIX jobs that have been advertised since August 4th 2009. And the majority of those six postings are for very senior positions…Library Director, Head of Reference Services etc. There’s simply nothing for a new MLS graduate to apply for… Of course, I am making applications in other areas of librarianship – academic reference and so forth…but have you seen how many job listings there are at the ALA joblist and Chronicle of Higher Education (to name but two sources)? Woeful.
So should you avoid Library School? That’s for you to decide. The poster “MJ” (above) indicates that a library science program is facile. That’s quite wrong. Did I fear my cataloging assignments in the same way that feared by Equity & Trusts exams whilst in law school? No…but that doesn’t mean that the cataloging class wasn’t valuable. Admittedly, most library science programs do contain some mandatory classes in your first year that will appear basic and mundane, and perhaps should be revised (I never understood why prospective students had to include a signed declaration of IT competence when applying to the program, only to discover that the first class began with a description of how to navigate around Windows). Still, if you select a good program you will find many advanced level classes which will prove interesting and academically rigorous.
If you do go to library school you will, admittedly, encounter some delusional people. These are professors who repeat the ALA mantra of a “graying profession” and an eventual, sudden, desperate need for librarians. This is a total fallacy. I saw two or three retirements in the university libraries whilst I was working there. Not one of those librarians was replaced by another MLS qualified librarian. Instead, the position was just obliterated and the duties shared out amongst the dwindling pool of professional librarians (and, increasingly) paraprofessionals. There is also some truth in MJ’s comment about librarians being the only people who determinedly see the continued relevance of their profession. The conclusion I have come to is that most people recognize the value of libraries and may, indeed, actually like libraries. But no-body wants to pay for libraries (and librarians). At the moment we are still a necessity. Office printers are still a necessity too, but wouldn’t it be great to go completely paperless and save the money all that toner costs…?
The reality. There are a dwindling number of openings for librarians. There are a lot of librarians who have lost their jobs. Older librarians are not retiring (and why should they? Most of them lost a fortune from their retirement nest-eggs in the last year or so, the job is not physically strenuous, and librarians tend to actually like their jobs! Heck, if I ever am actually hired I want to stay in the job ’til I’m 70.) When older librarians do retire, it is quite wrong to assume that their position will continue to exist in order to be filled by a younger, MLS qualified librarian. Every May, hundreds of new MLS graduates join the job-hunt. When this recession ends, I simply do not believe that universities and corporate law firms are going to hang out a huge “We’re hiring librarians!” sign. Are you familiar with the concept of unsustainability…?
I’ll end this by returning to James Herriot. He qualified as a vet at the worst possible time…and ultimately became the most famous vet of his generation. So it can be done!
I’m not in despair (yet). I’m working on keeping my skills sharp, I never stop looking, I belong to the right professional associations, I have a paper ready for publication. I’m not going to end up stuck working retail for the rest of my life. But at some point I will have to draw a line in the sand, give up on the dream of librarianship, and ask: “What can a J.D. / M.L.S. graduate productively do with his life outside the library?’ As yet, I don’t know when that point in time will come, and I am deferring the decision for as long as possible. Deferring student loans, however, is not that simple. I hope I am good at selling guitars.
Johnny,
I appreciate such a thoughtful and elegant contribution to the discussion going on here. I, too, love the works of James Herriot and read most of them growing up.
This discussion has made me think a lot in the last few days. I think that out of all of us, David has been through the most and that has shaped his viewpoint. However, I can’t give up hope yet that there is still a future in this profession. I see too many intelligent people willing to go into the field. But I think for all of us, this is a personal choice and is very shaped by the experiences we have. I’ve maintained from the beginning that getting laid off and being unemployed is very personal. But I’ve also maintained that the philosophy I’ve chosen to adopt is staying positive.
I don’t know what the future of libraries, librarians or law librarians is going to be. I hope I have a chance to shape it. I guess I’m just not willing to give up hope yet.
Thank you to everyone for such a wonderful discussion. I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you decide.
Christine